I've been searching the old posts trying to learn where lung worm comes from and have not been able to find it. This came up because the people who bought Summer's triplets were just told that the youngest has lung worms and scarring on her lungs from probably pneumonia. She had an infection in the disbudding scur when she was three weeks old and had antibiotic at that time but had no other health issues of which I am aware. There had never been any running nose or coughing on her part for her first four months, so the lung scarring because of pneumonia has me quite puzzled. When they left here, she had still not caught up again with her littlest sister with whom there had never been more than an ounce difference the first three weeks but was still gaining regularly. She was 20 lbs. when she left here (August 6th, 4 months old) and, though reportedly she eats very well, only weighs 22 lbs. now. The vet told them she would always be a smaller goat (though he didn't know that the two younger ones were within an ounce of each other at birth and for the first three weeks). Capri's littlest, Flurry, has grown steadily in the same proportions as her sisters though is still smaller so that this one is so very much smaller has me puzzled. The only other factor I can think of which would have nothing to do with worms is that though I sent two quarts of milk with them and the bottle to continue giving her a little milk for a while, they said she refused it. (I had continued supplementing her since she was used to having a bottle when I started supplementing Capri's littlest, simply because she wanted it and would cry for it, more likely the attention, and I figured it would do no harm. I didn't give Flurry any more after they left since Flurry was big enough to fight for her share and they were eating hay. alfalfa pellets and browse.) I think I have covered everything that might be relevant.
So I guess my questions are two:
Can our goats have pneumonia and us not see any symptoms?
Where do lung worms come from? The first year I had my girls, I had the vet do all blood tests and all the fecal samples which showed a light worm load and nothing that needed treatment. Only the does have ever been anywhere else and only to be bred. Except for this past year, it was at the farm of origin, Summer was bred again at the farm of origin.
All of my goats are doing well, including Ginger who is doing too well (too heavy) with no sign of illness. Could they have lung worms with no symptoms of any kind? Mostly, I want to know if they could have them undetected and/or if this is something that could be picked up from a dog.
As you can imagine, when the new owner called and told me this today, it came as a total surprise.
Not mentioned above is that they live in the country - whether there are deer near, I'm not sure, but they do have small dogs.
Replies
I have had suspicions that my two new bucklings had lung worms since they coughed a LOT (not when dry or dusty, not when eating) and they are both half the size they should be for their ages. I treated them a week ago with Ivomec injectable (orally) but then noticed my older buck coughing badly so I decided to try a Baermann test on him myself before treating him. I actually found lung worms!! I tried various ways but the best way I found was to use a disposable wine glass because the stem is hollow and the worms fall down in there. Let it sit for a few hours with the tied up poop floating in the warm water. Then it's easy to pick up the bottom of the stem with a long dropper or syringe and drip it onto a slide. Put a cover slip on it. I did the test 5 or 6 times and every time I found more worms and used images on the internet to confirm they are indeed lung worm. Thought you'd like to know in case you want to confirm whether or not your does have it. Fortunately my girls are separated so it's very unlikely they will get it from the boys.
Personally I wouldn't test.
If you were in my position, with all goats looking and acting healthy (except my little fatty), would you test? If you decided to, would you test all or just the babies (now four months old)? And, either way, would you separate the samples or combine all? Seems if it is negative as I suspect, it would be absurd to pay for seven tests when one would suffice. Your thoughts, please.
(And, yes, I also think the lungworm is from the new home especially since there is more "exposure" to conditions and other animals - but, as with many things, we cannot know for sure about anything. As you can imagine, I am skeptical with the "pneumonia in the past" diagnosis though they apparently can by asymptomatic.)
I agree.
Rachel Whetzel at MigMog Acres said:
So, if there is no telling how long she has had them, it's entirely possible that the lung worm came from her NEW home... She's been there over a month. I would think if you chose to do the test without symptoms in your herd, that it would only really be for peace of mind, and to see *if* the source could have been at your place.
After some frustration, this what I got:
"I spoke with Dr. Dan. He used the Baermann technique to check for the lungworms. The specific breed of lungworm requires a snail or slug as a host. There is no way of knowing how long Honey has had them. He suggested that the breeder do a pooled sample and have the special Baermann technique done. The lungworms will not be picked up in a regular stool test."
What are your thoughts? Honestly, as odd as it sounds, I have seen no slugs or snails in my yard this year. So, should I have them tested, no signs of any problems - everyone is gaining and thriving, even the tiny one who is far from tiny anymore.
The answer to the pneumonia question is that yes, a goat can have it without symptoms, although it's my understanding that being asymptomatic is more common in adults than kids. Lungworm is just one reason for pneumonia.
The lungworm question is more complicated ... There are three types of lungworm, and two of them use a snail as an intermediary host. The other one is picked up much the same way as intestinal parasites -- fecal-oral, meaning that poop from an infected animal infects the pasture -- although goats can also cough up larvae onto the pasture. So, the goats could have picked it up at the farm where they were bred, although that seems a long shot.
According to Goat Medicine, the best method of diagnosis is doing a fecal using the Baerman technique rather than a standard fecal.
Misdiagnosis of lungworm is not unheard of because symptoms are similar to intestinal parasites, and it is also possible to misdiagnose a fecal. A goat with lungworm may or may not have a cough.
Did they give you any info about how the vet arrived at his diagnosis? If the goat is not coughing, what led him to believe she has scarred lungs? (Obviously he can't see them.) What test did he do to diagnose lungworm? I would not rush out and treat the rest of your goats for this (if that's what you were thinking) because they are all obviously healthy, especially Ginger.
Typically, a kid that doesn't grow has a problem with intestinal parasites that may cause scarring of the intestines and poor absorption of nutrients ... or it could just be genetics.