Hello again.

My goat Iris has been displaying what I thought might be “buckish” characteristics. In the last two-three months she has become increasingly unfriendly. She has always been skittish despite being held, handled and loved since birth. For the past six days, when we approach her, she gets a crazed look in her eyes. When we put out our hand to say hello, her tongue begins to roll to one side of her mouth and droop out, she snorts and makes a lot of noise. She stands on her hind legs and tries to jump on us. I have to say “No” and restrain her to keep her down. She follows me (or anyone) across the yard trying to jump on us. She seems to be eating and drinking normally. Her sister Georgia is her “herd queen”. She doesn’t seem to be bothering her – just us. I am really worried and concerned about her. Please advise.

Here's a YouTube link to show you her behavior.

 

Many thanks.

Jennifer

Iris snorting April 1, 2012.jpg

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Replies

  • That is wonderful Jennifer, I am happy for you. I have been following from the beginning, just didn't know how to help. Best to you. Margaret

  • Hello to those of you following this story. I'm sorry for the long delay in this update. Please see the attachments for the hormone results and recommendations. Basically, hormone levels were normal. Iris is a girl with bad/male behavior. Removing her reproductive tract will not necessarily help her behavior. They gave me some tips on behavior modification. However, these recommendations were given with the thought that Iris was receiving treats and her behavior was "asking" us for more. She was getting plenty of alfalfa free choice but no treats and certainly not in response to her bad behavior. Our "NO" response to her behavior has either worked or she has changed her mind on her own. The snorting and tongue flapping have stopped. We will do as they suggest and ignore her if it starts up again when she next goes into heat. I am grateful to the Dr. Sertich at U of PA Vet Hospital who has called me multiple times and consulted with her colleagues across the country including Cornell with the sharing of our video. For now, Iris is back to her regular self and we are hoping for the best... Thanks again to all. Jennifer

    PennVet letter 4-26-12.pdf

    Endocrine letter 4-23-12.pdf

  • With everything else going on, I completely forgot about those fish tails! Alfalfa is high in molybdenum, which can bind with copper, so by simply eliminating the molybdenum, you eliminate a copper antagonist in their diet, meaning that the amount of copper they need will actually go down. Hope that helps you sleep better!

    And thanks for the congrats on the ten years!

  • Thank you, Patty and Deborah for your words of encouragement and feeding ideas. We too, got a good chuckle out of the "generous" comment. I will re-read the mineral discussions. We first tried Manna Pro loose minerals, then a block and finally the Purina. I suppose they would eat it if needed. Their fish tails worry me but the Vets I just visited thought I might be reading too much into that. I will call my hay supplier for a substitute hay. And, I will update you after I learn the results of the hormone test. Thanks again and enjoy the weekend. Deborah, I just read your 10 year blog entry - congratulations!

  • Wow! How interesting! I love the description of their "generous condition!"

    Two things about the diet that will hopefully make you feel less mean -- the breeder fed her goats like that because she was breeding her goats. If your does aren't breeding, they don't need it. The other thing is that they are probably not eating any minerals because they don't need them. They are getting more than they need from the grain and alfalfa. Once you cut back on that, they will probably start to eat a little more of the minerals. However, since they are not pregnant and/or lactating, their needs are far less than most does, so they will still probably not consume much, and they'll be fine. I've noticed that wethers really don't need much of anything other than pasture and grass hay, and they do just fine.

    If you still have some of the alfalfa mix, you could try that again. I'd say just finish off what you have and gradually switch them over to something like timothy or whatever good grass hay you have available.

  • Wow!  That was quite a trip. :)  Keep up the tough love!  I'm sure they'll start eating, and be all the healthier for it.   Great work so far!

  • We are back from our adventure at the U PA Vet Hospital. We visited the Reproductive Unit. Here is what was written about the examination: "Visual examination of the external genitalia was within normal limits. A limited vaginal examination was performed to asses the internal length of the vagina, and this parameter was found to be similar to her pature mate and was thus considered normal for this doe. Digital examination of the reproductive tract per rectum revealed no abnormalities. A transabdominal evaluation of the reproductive tract was performed. Both ovaries were visiualized in the appropriate locations. Both ovaries were of normal size and contained multiple small follicles, with the right ovary measuring 10.9 mm by 1.6 mm, and the left ovary measuring 11.3 mm by 11.6 mm. The uterine horns were not readily visible, however this is not abnormal for the generous condition of these goats. Due to lack of evidence for masculinization of the reproductive tract, serum was obstained for testosterone and progesterone assays. " Recommendations: "If the testosterone concentrations are found to be elevated, we would recommend removal of the gonads." They should have the hormone blood work test back by Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. They did internal and external ultrasound but their internal equipment was for larger animals and they were not able to see everything in all locations. The hormone levels should steer us in some direction - hopefully. I'm going to have to work on shrinking my "big" girls. The breeder I bought them from feeds all of her goats alfalfa and grain. I did the same, thinking I was giving them the best nutrition possible. I will eliminate grain though this worries me because they never touch their minerals. I'll also try tough love and switch to a different hay. Timothy? Suggestions? They have no pasture. I tried an alfalfa mix recently and they didn't eat for three days. I'll work on tough love for longer... These are the updates for now. I'll share more after we have the new bloodwork results back. Thanks for your guidance and interest.

  • I'm two hours from the University of Illinois, so we've done a similar trip quite a few times with no issues. Good luck, and keep us informed!

  • Thanks Deborah, for your insights. Clearly, we have a number of issues on which to work. I thought I would update those who have been following this. I'm taking both Iris and Georgia on Thursday to the Univ. of PA Vet. Hospital to the reproductive unit. They want to see Georgia as well to compare the size of their genital tracts... The location is almost two hours away from us. This will be the longest car trip I've ever done with goats. They are pretty good travelers on short trips to the vet, but if you have any tips, please let me know. I have sent ahead lots of requested background information on my two goats and their medical history and bloodwork results from the vet. I'll be sure to update you after we know something. Thanks again to all for your advice and counsel. Shannon, your article really has helped me to understand what we may be dealing with. Jennifer

  • Wow! Poor goat! There are about as many abnormal results on there as normal. The only time I've seen a goat with high glucose was when it had recently been given NutriDrench, which is pure sugar. I'm wondering if the grain in her diet is causing the high glucose because grains are carbs, and she doesn't need them if she's not lactating or pregnant. Goat supposedly don't get diabetes, but Type II diabetes in humans is an entirely diet-related disease that is also related to obesity. It would be a good idea to start weaning them off the grain and alfalfa. That would at least improve their body condition.

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