Intro and itchy/mites question

Hi, my name is Leslie and I'm new to the site. I have 3 wethers (triplet brothers all arrived together in June 2020) just about to turn one year old. I have my first question regarding significant itching and stomping of feet and possible mites. I guess a few basic details...they are the only goats we have, and they get mixed grass hay and free choice loose minerals (Manna Pro but going to try Sweetlix when it arrives). I'm in Minnesota, and we just got through that very cold weather. It has warmed up and all of the goats are shedding (and have a little bit of dandruff), so at first I thought the itching was just related to that. However, one goat in particular does a lot of feet stomping and itching of his forelegs especially, and seems very miserable. He definitely behaves like something is biting him. Their coats look really nice overall, no missing hair and absolutely no sign of lice after a great deal of searching. However, today I noticed a few small scabby spots on the forelegs of the one who is the most miserable, though I haven't been able to scrape skin significantly enough to see if I can find mites under a scope. I ordered Nu Stock arriving today and will try that but wasn't sure if it would actually kill mites or just possibly provide some relief. I also have DE coming but I'm unsure about using that on them yet in case it is too drying. I was wondering if I should just go ahead and use Ivomec pour on or if I really need to try to confirm mites at the vet. I was trying to avoid going, especially given how few scabby spots I can see and if there wasn't really harm in using the pour on without confirmation. In summary, I don't see any lice, their coats look nice and I don't really suspect any mineral deficiency based on that, and the one is just so annoyed that I would be surprised if it's only shedding...especially given the little scabs I am now seeing.  Not sure if I should use only Nu Stock cream for now, or go ahead with the pour on, or how best to minimize the itching. I thought I'd see what others think before I go haul one to a vet. Thank you!  

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Replies

  • Thanks Ann! I might try Eprinex since I have it on hand and I'm still suspicious of mites. Good to know about the Cyclence suggestion, that might be my next step if Eprinex doesn't resolve it.

    Ann Bodling said:

    Hi Leslie,

      Thanks for writing back... I used the Ivermectin pour on but they were still itching, though not as badly, a week later. They I used Cylence pour on, as recommended by our vet and that seemed to take care of it...or, I am assuming it did, as they stopped stomping their feet and scratching. I'm thinking that next year, if I can remember to do it, I might just treat each of the 3 with Cylence at the beginning of March before the lice become numerous to really start the itching. Whether I remember will be up for grabs but seems like a good idea right now. Mine haven't had any skin lesions so I am just assuming it really was lice.

  • Hi Leslie,

      Thanks for writing back... I used the Ivermectin pour on but they were still itching, though not as badly, a week later. They I used Cylence pour on, as recommended by our vet and that seemed to take care of it...or, I am assuming it did, as they stopped stomping their feet and scratching. I'm thinking that next year, if I can remember to do it, I might just treat each of the 3 with Cylence at the beginning of March before the lice become numerous to really start the itching. Whether I remember will be up for grabs but seems like a good idea right now. Mine haven't had any skin lesions so I am just assuming it really was lice.

  • Sorry for my delay in seeing this, Ann.  The vet who eventually visited for their yearly check last year did not seem to think it was mites, they just didn't have a lot of skin lesions to suggest it. I ended up using the sulfur lime dip, which was smelly but seemed to help his itching. Eventually it just went away. Now this year he is itchy again. His skin seems dry and flaky in some spots so maybe due to the shedding (or lice I can't see). I think what I will do is just the ivermectin or Eprinex pour-on in case of lice, as the winters here get so bad for a while and they are stuck in the barn a lot.  I use Nustock on any skin patches that look irritated and that seems to help a bit. Otherwise I am just brushing out his shedding coat. I wondered if a conditioning spray would help but can't really find one for goats. I'm interested to know if you find anything that works for you or what it might be. 

    Leslie 

    Ann Bodling said:

    Hi Leslie,

     It is a year now since you posted about Ted and his itching. I am going through something similar now and so am wondering if you remember how things turned out for you. Did you end up deciding it was mites and treat accordingly or did the Ivermectin work in the end? Have you faced the same problem this year?  Thanks so much if you see this.

  • Hi Leslie,

     It is a year now since you posted about Ted and his itching. I am going through something similar now and so am wondering if you remember how things turned out for you. Did you end up deciding it was mites and treat accordingly or did the Ivermectin work in the end? Have you faced the same problem this year?  Thanks so much if you see this.

  • He didn’t mention it but Ted doesn’t have much in the way of any scabs or patches now, and itching is much better though not yet 100%. Vet is due for a visit here in a month so at least if it isn’t resolved by then they will get a checkup! 

  • Thanks for the update! Did he offer to do a skin scrape for you to check for mites? It can be hit or miss on the scrapes because sometimes they are really down deep. If Ted has any scabby or scaly areas still around after another week or so, you may want to consider that.

  • Hi Tammy,

    Just wanted to update you that I finally connected with the vet - he was in agreement with everything done so far and thinks the ivermectin pour on should have done away with any lice. As for mites, which is still my suspicion, he said I could treat again with ivermectin or the Eprinex pour on but he wouldn't be concerned waiting a few more weeks to see improvement. He is not opposed to the sulfur lime dip idea but just considers it an older method that was used before newer drugs were available. The itchy one (his name is Ted) is definitely better, but still has itchy times here and there where it still seems like he is getting bites of some kind. I'm going to keep watching him and I might try the dip if he seems miserable again, before I do any more rounds of a pour on. I'll let you know how it works if I do it!



    Tammy Gallagher said:

    Your Welcome! Please keep us posted and I am interested in what your vet recommends about treatment and opinion about what is going on with them. I've never used a dip and would really like the feedback on your experience if you choose that.

    Leslie Carion said:

    Thanks Tammy! These guys are pets for life but I will go ahead and see what the vet has to say anyway. I'm going to try to be patient also :) Thanks so much for the support on this forum, I really appreciate it!

  • I would not repeat this soon. Give it a little more time to work. I looked all over for an answer on how long to expect before it kills lice, even when applied to cattle, and could not find an answer. There is nothing that I could locate on the label or the product details sheet. I am assuming because it is for treatment of various parasites, so it's just not that detailed. It does have to be absorbed into the skin and then the lice (depending on the type) have to either eat skin or drink blood to consume it. At that point it causes paralysis in the louse. It did take a few days before I noticed that none of mine were stopping to scratch themselves.

    I know that it seemed to really irritate the skin on my younger kids when I applied it. They were rolling over on their backs trying to scratch it for a few hours after I applied it.

    Ann Bodling said:

    Hi Tammy,  should I have expected the Ivermectin to be effective at relieving their itching 2 days after it was given?  They are all still itching and some seem worse. A couple of them are biting just above their feet, but I'm not seeing hair loss at this point.  I think I gave it correctly using an eye dropper pressed down through their hair to the skin.  Would you recommend giving it to them again right away?  Our vet is down with COVID and was bedridden a couple of days ago so I am not expecting her to be able to come any time soon.  Thanks a bunch!
    Tammy Gallagher said:

    Do you know if the breeder gave them anything right before you brought them home? I would ask just in case something was applied that was irritating to the skin in general. I know when I treated my kids for lice with the Ivermectin Pour On, several of them were trying to scratch at it in any way they could get to the area, so I am pretty sure that it irritated their baby skin. It lasted for a couple of hours. They were around 8 weeks old when treated.

    Lice can be super hard to see unless there is a large population. If they are very itchy, I would bet this is what you are dealing with.  

    Another thought- were they banded just before you picked them up? Are they scratching with their little back feet like a dog, or are they sort of rolling around like they are itchy? If they are rolling around that may actually be a pain response to recently being banded rather than being itchy.

    Ann Bodling said:

    Thanks so much Tammy.  What I'm confused about right now is that I haven't seen any parasites so I don't know what I'm dealing with.  The 4 wethers are 10 weeks old and came two days ago and one began scratching after getting him home and I wondered whether something was in the straw that was bothering him. I cleared out the straw and put hay down but then this morning everyone is scratching.  The barn hasn't housed livestock in decades but squirrels and chipmunks have been in and out in the past. So I don't know if this is indeed parasites or some other condition. 

    I called the vet, who the other goat owners in the area love,(and who I had made an appt with for next Tuesday to come and check the little guys over)  but it turns out she is bedridden with COVID which is awful for her and those who count on her.  So, I'm flying a little blind at the moment. As they seemed in so much discomfort  at timesI wanted to try the Ivermectin to see if it would help. 

    If you have any other ideas, I'd be grateful to hear them! They are scratching from their nose down to their feet, so pretty much all over, though it certainly isn't constant.  Would stress alone be enough to cause the itching? I wouldn't have thought so. They are eating and drinking and their droppings are as should be (knocking on something!) and they seem perky, otherwise. Thanks again!


    Tammy Gallagher said:

    Ann- if you are pretty sure it is lice, I wouldn't worry about a second dose. The pour-on ivermectin is formulated to stay in the system long enough to kill the lice eggs that hatch. Mites are typically harder to eradicate with one dose, but you will likely see scabby areas with hair loss if that is what they have =) My poor boys had them all around their tail webbing and on their scrotums-poor things! They have all grown hair back now!

    Deborah has also recommended sulfur dusting as a more natural alternative to using Ivermectin Pour On for lice. I've asked her for a little detail in exactly what to purchase and how to do the dusting and will let y'all know for future reference. =)

  • Your Welcome! Please keep us posted and I am interested in what your vet recommends about treatment and opinion about what is going on with them. I've never used a dip and would really like the feedback on your experience if you choose that.

    Leslie Carion said:

    Thanks Tammy! These guys are pets for life but I will go ahead and see what the vet has to say anyway. I'm going to try to be patient also :) Thanks so much for the support on this forum, I really appreciate it!

  • Hi Tammy,  should I have expected the Ivermectin to be effective at relieving their itching 2 days after it was given?  They are all still itching and some seem worse. A couple of them are biting just above their feet, but I'm not seeing hair loss at this point.  I think I gave it correctly using an eye dropper pressed down through their hair to the skin.  Would you recommend giving it to them again right away?  Our vet is down with COVID and was bedridden a couple of days ago so I am not expecting her to be able to come any time soon.  Thanks a bunch!
    Tammy Gallagher said:

    Do you know if the breeder gave them anything right before you brought them home? I would ask just in case something was applied that was irritating to the skin in general. I know when I treated my kids for lice with the Ivermectin Pour On, several of them were trying to scratch at it in any way they could get to the area, so I am pretty sure that it irritated their baby skin. It lasted for a couple of hours. They were around 8 weeks old when treated.

    Lice can be super hard to see unless there is a large population. If they are very itchy, I would bet this is what you are dealing with.  

    Another thought- were they banded just before you picked them up? Are they scratching with their little back feet like a dog, or are they sort of rolling around like they are itchy? If they are rolling around that may actually be a pain response to recently being banded rather than being itchy.

    Ann Bodling said:

    Thanks so much Tammy.  What I'm confused about right now is that I haven't seen any parasites so I don't know what I'm dealing with.  The 4 wethers are 10 weeks old and came two days ago and one began scratching after getting him home and I wondered whether something was in the straw that was bothering him. I cleared out the straw and put hay down but then this morning everyone is scratching.  The barn hasn't housed livestock in decades but squirrels and chipmunks have been in and out in the past. So I don't know if this is indeed parasites or some other condition. 

    I called the vet, who the other goat owners in the area love,(and who I had made an appt with for next Tuesday to come and check the little guys over)  but it turns out she is bedridden with COVID which is awful for her and those who count on her.  So, I'm flying a little blind at the moment. As they seemed in so much discomfort  at timesI wanted to try the Ivermectin to see if it would help. 

    If you have any other ideas, I'd be grateful to hear them! They are scratching from their nose down to their feet, so pretty much all over, though it certainly isn't constant.  Would stress alone be enough to cause the itching? I wouldn't have thought so. They are eating and drinking and their droppings are as should be (knocking on something!) and they seem perky, otherwise. Thanks again!


    Tammy Gallagher said:

    Ann- if you are pretty sure it is lice, I wouldn't worry about a second dose. The pour-on ivermectin is formulated to stay in the system long enough to kill the lice eggs that hatch. Mites are typically harder to eradicate with one dose, but you will likely see scabby areas with hair loss if that is what they have =) My poor boys had them all around their tail webbing and on their scrotums-poor things! They have all grown hair back now!

    Deborah has also recommended sulfur dusting as a more natural alternative to using Ivermectin Pour On for lice. I've asked her for a little detail in exactly what to purchase and how to do the dusting and will let y'all know for future reference. =)

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