Hyperextended knees

I have a doe whose front knees are hyper-extended and I was hoping someone here could help me figure out why. I've had so many different opinions I'm not sure what to do and I'm ready to throw the kitchen sink at her. She had it mildly before pregnancy but only in her front left leg and I thought maybe she jumped off of something and landed on it funny. It continued to progress during pregnancy with the added weight (she's a first freshener). Her diet was peanut hay, coastal hay and alfalfa pellets during pregnancy and grain during the last week. She has access to Sweetlix Meat Maker, Selenium/E powder, Throvin Kelp and baking soda free choice. She gets 2 grams of COWP every 2 months (heavy sulfur in our area) and I also gave her 5cc of Replamin Gel Plus every 2 weeks. 
Here are the different things I've been told by various other breeders and show judges:


Theory #1) Mineral deficiency (Copper or Selenium). I really don't think that's the case here, but can't afford to have her blood analyzed at the moment.

Theory #2) Calcium deficiency due to imbalance of calcium and phosphorus. Specifically too much calcium and not enough phosphorus which blocked her absorption of calcium and caused this. The suggestion was to switch her to a high phos mineral (1:1 cal/phos ratio) and splint her legs.

Theory #3) It's genetic and should probably be culled from the breeding program. Her sire has one hyper-extended knee but the breeder thought it was an injury. None of his other kids have had this issue.

I've been tirelessly trying to help her heal. I don't have access to a better mineral at the moment, I've tried splinting her legs (to no avail, she takes the splint off) I currently have her on some herbal Mixes from fir Meadows to support joint healing.

At this point I'm open to just about any suggestions.

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  • After talking to a vet friend and some other people I decided to change management in the hopes to at least halt the damage. I regret not taking a "before" photo, but to give you an idea, if her upper leg was perpendicular to the ground her knee was hyperextended enough that sure was almost walking on her dew claws. After a month of new management I've seen a significant improvement. She's nearly straight again.
    What I did:
    Cut back on alfalfa and increased grass hay. The thought is that too much calcium (alfalfa) blocks zinc absorption.
    Went through everything I was feeding and tweaked it to reduce calcium and increase phosphorus. So more BOSS and less kelp meal. I also stopped feeding a yeast mix that was high in calcium. I also added a small amount of zinc to her feed.
    Switched from Sweetlix Meat Maker (2:1) to Magnum Milk (1:1).
    For the Hail Mary I also added an electrolyte that had vitamin D, since a deficiency in that can cause joint issues. 2771475496?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024

  • This is very interesting. Thanks for sharing!

  • Here is the thread I started about it a while back. Since posting this, several other goats from the same sire, who live on different farms, have all had legs that have the same issues.

    Here are some links with other farms that are talking about it. I don't want to start anything by posting people's pictures without their permission, but once you know what to look for, you see it on other people's pictures. I have attached a picture of my doe with her terrible knees. I was hoping to find a way to fix them. Splinting didn't help, and neither did switching to the higher phos. mineral. This doe started by swinging one leg and then they both slowly got worse. 

    I've recently heard a suggestion that it could be linked to zinc deficiency, but no one has any concrete answers that I can find. 

    https://pholiafarm.com/the-limping-goat/

    https://www.dillsalittlegoatfarm.com/solutions.htm

    27901354_10155732910599818_178290913_o.jpg

  • Looking at her you wouldn't think she was deficient in copper at all. Long, shiny, soft fur....

    The buck's owner at the time of the leg issue thought possibly an injury too but when he was appraised we learned of the issue because the appraiser was seeing it often. That buck apparently had some 1/2 siblings with the same issue. Then, now to see his daughter with it makes me think there's a genetic component to it - like that line has a more difficult time absorbing certain minerals/vitamins.  

  • Crooked legs are one of the few symptoms that I've seen listed in books for copper deficiency. They never mention the symptoms of mild deficiency. I also wonder if the buck could have had an injury that simply healed?

  • She's 2 1/2 years old. Her sire was the same age when he started to develop it and then was sold about 6 months later. However, I chatted a bit with his new owner and she said he's got nice straight front legs and there is no sign of limping now. 

  • How old is she? How old was her sire when he was sold?

    Rachel Hoff said:

    I'm late to the discussion but I just came across this looking for answers myself. I have a doe who has started to swing her left leg and I've noticed that it is starting to hyper-extend. Her sire had the same issue on his right leg but he went to a new farm and it appears that he no longer has the issue which makes me think it's a management problem. I've ruled out selenium via blood test as her's was actually higher than ideal. Copper is still a possibility and I've just recently increased her copper intake in the hopes of it making a difference. I'm intrigued with the calcium: phosphorus issue. I'm going to explore that further. 

  • I'm late to the discussion but I just came across this looking for answers myself. I have a doe who has started to swing her left leg and I've noticed that it is starting to hyper-extend. Her sire had the same issue on his right leg but he went to a new farm and it appears that he no longer has the issue which makes me think it's a management problem. I've ruled out selenium via blood test as her's was actually higher than ideal. Copper is still a possibility and I've just recently increased her copper intake in the hopes of it making a difference. I'm intrigued with the calcium: phosphorus issue. I'm going to explore that further. 

  • Breeding at 45 pounds is fine. I usually wait until they're 40 pounds and have never had this happen, so I don't think you can blame yourself for this at all.

    Thanks for posting Gianaclis's blog post. That was very interesting. We haven't seen that here, but it doesn't sound like it's that uncommon.

  • She is a one year old First Freshener. I bred her earlier than I probably should have (8 months, 45 pounds) because I had the opportunity to breed her to an amazing buck who died soon after their breeding. I noticed her swinging her front left leg right after I got her, but thought it was just a quirk. She didn't start limping on it until a month after she was bred and it just progressed from there. I have been extremely diligent with her copper intake so I really don't think that is the cause here. If it is copper I might throw in the towel on goats for a while. 

    Kristen, I actually did read that! It helped that I'm not the only one to experience this but I am still feeling confused about the whole thing. This is the only goat on my property doing this and none of my other goats are showing any signs of deficiency or illness. She doesn't seem to be in a whole lot of pain (she still runs back to the barn at feeding time and has no trouble laying down or getting up. 

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