Posted by Curtis on February 28, 2016 at 11:07pm in Goats 101
Howdy ya'll,
Here is my girls info:
Born: 8/24/2011
Color: Black cou clair
1st freshener sense 5/25/2015
For the last 3 weeks she has been developing moisture on her back in the evening around 7pm. Whether she is in or outside the barn. We've been having a mild winter here in Maine, but had a wicked cold snap for 1 week. She has very thick coat without down unlike my other girls. She has the most tolerance to the cold of my does. Another few notes...sense I got her she has very flaky skin. I know she seems to more prone to Cooper deficiencies. Before I got her last year she had lost a lot of hair. The lady said was due to Cooper because she responded well to it and all grew back. I'm just wondering if there is something underlying we are missing or deficiency. She happy as a clam, but hate to see her lose hair agian.
Fyi, I've now been doing Copasure 2g 10/24/15, 12/22/15, 2/22/16.
Also we have been on Molly’s Herbal worm program for many months.
My girls also get free choice kelp, minerals, BS, etc. Milk stand grain: oats, barely, Boss.
Also do 2nd 3rd crop orchard grass hay and Chaffhaye Alfalfa free choice.
The moisture she gets at night is so odd...and she is my only doe that does it. When it's real cold she can get soaked! Or have it freeze on her so she looks like a popsicle. It's not water from rain or snow.
Please any advice and thoughts..
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I feel the Chelated minerals make a big difference. Another that I hear will be back in Stock in May ProCare-Zn contains a proprietary form of zinc (zinc methionine complex) from Zinpro Corporation. For me the Solgar Chelated Zinc Tablets I purchased on Amazon seemed to be great & easy to use for them picky eaters!
Good to hear! Thanks for sharing the specific zinc that you used, as well as the dosage. I've tried zinc, but it didn't make a difference, which is why I didn't suggest it. It was a different type of zinc though.
Figure I'd give you an update on my doe. I've been using Solgar Chelated Zinc Tablets for almost 2 weeks and it seems to have made very fast difference in her hair and skin. Crust is gone! I've been dosing one 22mg tablet a day in milk stand feed. Though I was doing Eprinex pour-on before, that only seemed to work so much. I feel Zinc deficiency can be precursor to allow a mite attack and/or mimic it in ways. A lady I purchased a buck from had a doe with same condition for two winters we both had in our doe. She started using Zinpro Pro Care and saw great improvement.
This should be a help for future goat people looking for help and answers!
According to Diseases of the Goat, doramectin and moxidectin have residual action for mites, but ivermectin does not, so you usually need to use it weekly for 2-3 weeks. Eprinomectin is not mentioned, and when I looked up the manufacturer's info, it does not say whether it needs to be used more than once for mites or if it has any residual action for mites. So, there is no answer based upon research that I can find. My doe had shown improvement when I responded to your original question a week ago, but she's kind of stalled, so I'm wondering if I should do a second treatment on her, as she is getting hair on the larger areas where she lost it, but smaller areas are still bare.
I do think that healthy animals do not usually succumb to illness or parasite infestation, so there is probably some underlying issue. My particular doe gave birth to quintuplets two years in a row -- yes 10 kids in two years! I decided not to breed her this year because I felt that she should have a year off after having so many kids, and I'm glad I didn't breed her. I'd be freaking out right now if she were pregnant.
With skin problems like this, zinc deficiency is also a possibility. The difference between zinc and copper deficiency is that with copper deficiency you will see faded coat, as well as fertility problems. Zinc deficiency is usually just hair loss, but animals may also be foaming at the mouth sometimes. Several years ago, I had some bucks with zinc deficiency, and sometimes it looked like someone had sprayed whipped cream on their mouths.
Thank you Deborah!
Another few questions. In the time I've talk with you I can definitely see now it's mange mites. Last few weeks she really been have lots of hairloss. I've dosaged down her backline with 6ml Eprinex pour-on about 1 week ago, so I'm expecting to see a turn around.
Would you dose again? Also why in your opinion would say only one goat in your herd get it? IS there an underlying cause or deficiency?
I believe her condition was pre existing for last year because she the lady who had her thought it was Cooper when she lost lots of hair, when she regrow her hair her skin always been really flaky, but I think as winter progressed mites came out of dormancy?
Also why do you think it seems to flash so many copper symptoms?
Thanks Deborah for the fast response! I concur with your thoughts on it being mites. I've picked up the Eprinex pour-on today and was planning on doing it tomorrow. Wondering what exactly you did to your girl. I was was going to do around 3ml down her back. How fast did you see results?
Few notes have your girls experience this before or recur in the same doe? Did her milk also cut back from symptoms of mites?
This just happened to one of my does a month ago, and she was losing her hair. She was up-to-date on her copper like your doe, so I treated her with Eprinex pour-on, assuming it might be mites, which are invisible to the naked eye (unlike lice, which you can see). Her hair is now growing back, and the moisture is not happening any longer. It really looked like she had been heavily spritzed with water or something.
Replies
Good to hear! Thanks for sharing the specific zinc that you used, as well as the dosage. I've tried zinc, but it didn't make a difference, which is why I didn't suggest it. It was a different type of zinc though.
This should be a help for future goat people looking for help and answers!
According to Diseases of the Goat, doramectin and moxidectin have residual action for mites, but ivermectin does not, so you usually need to use it weekly for 2-3 weeks. Eprinomectin is not mentioned, and when I looked up the manufacturer's info, it does not say whether it needs to be used more than once for mites or if it has any residual action for mites. So, there is no answer based upon research that I can find. My doe had shown improvement when I responded to your original question a week ago, but she's kind of stalled, so I'm wondering if I should do a second treatment on her, as she is getting hair on the larger areas where she lost it, but smaller areas are still bare.
I do think that healthy animals do not usually succumb to illness or parasite infestation, so there is probably some underlying issue. My particular doe gave birth to quintuplets two years in a row -- yes 10 kids in two years! I decided not to breed her this year because I felt that she should have a year off after having so many kids, and I'm glad I didn't breed her. I'd be freaking out right now if she were pregnant.
With skin problems like this, zinc deficiency is also a possibility. The difference between zinc and copper deficiency is that with copper deficiency you will see faded coat, as well as fertility problems. Zinc deficiency is usually just hair loss, but animals may also be foaming at the mouth sometimes. Several years ago, I had some bucks with zinc deficiency, and sometimes it looked like someone had sprayed whipped cream on their mouths.
Another few questions. In the time I've talk with you I can definitely see now it's mange mites. Last few weeks she really been have lots of hairloss. I've dosaged down her backline with 6ml Eprinex pour-on about 1 week ago, so I'm expecting to see a turn around.
Would you dose again? Also why in your opinion would say only one goat in your herd get it? IS there an underlying cause or deficiency?
I believe her condition was pre existing for last year because she the lady who had her thought it was Cooper when she lost lots of hair, when she regrow her hair her skin always been really flaky, but I think as winter progressed mites came out of dormancy?
Also why do you think it seems to flash so many copper symptoms?
I used 2X the cattle dosage on the label. Within a week or two, you could see hair growing back everywhere.
We didn't see a reduction in milk production from her.
She was the only one with this problem.
Few notes have your girls experience this before or recur in the same doe? Did her milk also cut back from symptoms of mites?
This just happened to one of my does a month ago, and she was losing her hair. She was up-to-date on her copper like your doe, so I treated her with Eprinex pour-on, assuming it might be mites, which are invisible to the naked eye (unlike lice, which you can see). Her hair is now growing back, and the moisture is not happening any longer. It really looked like she had been heavily spritzed with water or something.