Help! Buck down, won't walk, drink, or hold up his head

[Myra Isaac]

Today my black buck, Frosty went down and he won't get up. He's was maybe a little slow yesterday but today he laid down and won't get up for anything. My husband saw him trying to walk once today when the buck peed and he sort of walked in a sitting down position. Shortly after that I found out Frosty wasn't doing too great so I went to see what was wrong. He was laying in their shelter looking miserable. Since its so cold (the temps were 50-67' last week until Saturday when the temps bottomed out. It's 0' here now.) I had brought out some Chaffehay for the bucks so theyd have a little more fuel to keep warm. Frosty ate about a handful of that. I thought maybe he was hypothermic even tho he's an adult. I told my husband that we had to warm him up so Arlen started getting a spot ready in the shed. It took me a couple minutes to find Frostys halter and get him haltered up to go to the shed. He refused to get up and when I tried to just pull him up he was all sort of limp and couldnt stand. We decided we'd have to bring the crate and the pickup to take him to the shed. As I waited there Frosty was laying there and he sort of flopped over and his legs went out straight and he went, Meeh very miserably. I yelled to Arlen to hurry as it seemed like Frosty was doing worse by the minute. We finally got him onto the pickup and we decided to bring him inside since he was so miserable. We brought him in and started warming him up. I called the woman who I bought my does from and she thought maybe it was urinary calculi or goat polio. I have a B Complex oral that I gave him but so far I cant see any improvement. I also offered hin some of their minerals (theyd been out in their pens for a week or so) and he ate that. I couldn't get a hold of the woman I bought Frosty from tho I emailed her. I gave Frosty some arnica and later also one drop of rescue remedy in case it was shock. Is there anything else I can do? Any idea what it could be? I couldn't find a vet to call in my area but I'll take him in in the morning if he's still alive. :( I don't want to loose him but I'm scared I will!!

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[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

Having a buck sharing a fenceline with does (or other bucks) is not the same thing as a buck being alone. As you noticed, he does interact with the does. The down side to this scenario is that you may wind up with unexpected breedings, but at least you will know who daddy is, so you would not have to do DNA testing. We had a similar situation when we bought our first goats, and the buck was quite the escape artist because he was always trying to get into the pen with the does.


Beverley Sieminski said:

The buck alone - my buck is on his own, next to the does pen.  He has plenty of room, pasture, greets us at the fence when we pass him which is every time I go to the does.  He gets pet, combed,  treats and plays with the dog along the fence line. They get quite a game going - and he will torment her until she joins in  running the fence line with him.   He seems to do well on his own.  Maybe not all would do so well and maybe it is because he gets a lot of attention and is close to the others that he is fine.  He didn't do well with another buck last year, fighting all the time.  I may try a wether this year and see if he likes that arrangement.  Also I am retired so going back and forth to the critters all day.  My favorite place to be.  

I also tell people a goat alone doesn't work but in this case it has been fine. 

[Winding River Farm (Bev)]

The buck alone - my buck is on his own, next to the does pen.  He has plenty of room, pasture, greets us at the fence when we pass him which is every time I go to the does.  He gets pet, combed,  treats and plays with the dog along the fence line. They get quite a game going - and he will torment her until she joins in  running the fence line with him.   He seems to do well on his own.  Maybe not all would do so well and maybe it is because he gets a lot of attention and is close to the others that he is fine.  He didn't do well with another buck last year, fighting all the time.  I may try a wether this year and see if he likes that arrangement.  Also I am retired so going back and forth to the critters all day.  My favorite place to be.  

I also tell people a goat alone doesn't work but in this case it has been fine. 

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

Within two weeks, the hair should feel softer, and if you pull back the hair, you should see darker roots coming in.

[Myra Isaac]

I copper bolused all my goat Saturday afternoon. How long until I see a change if copper deficiency was what was causing Cayenne's fading, rough coat?

[Myra Isaac]

I will definitely copper bolus the rest of my goats as soon as I receive it. I should have it in a couple days. In the meantime I found a few pre 1980 pennies and put them in the goats water hoping that would maybe help just a little. The woman who owned Frosty and Cowboy before me didn't know anything about giving copper boluses so it's highly possible he was critically low. She sweetly offered to give me a buckling from this years kidding if they have one. Would you all be worried about a single buck getting really lonely and becoming an escape artist? I don't want that to happen very badly. I'm hoping Cowboy will be ok at least until the buckling from the previous owner would be old enough to come home. If not I'll have to look for a wether or something.

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

If there is enough sulfur in your water that you can smell it or enough iron that it turns things orange, then there is enough to bind with the copper and make it less available to the goats. I do not often say that something "can't hurt," but when it comes to copper boluses, there have been more than a dozen studies done where they have used them for parasite control in goats and sheep, and they never had an animal die of toxicity, so I feel pretty safe using it.

[Julia @Woody Glen Farm]

Myra, if it were me, I'd take your does fecal to be tested and ask them to be specific about the results. (Collect fresh and refrigerate until you can take it). ALSO, I would most definitely copper bolus all your goats. I have very hard water and it stains yellow which means it has high iron which apparently binds to the copper they need. I'm routinely giving mine COWP every three months and my does all look fantastic. My newest addition is my 2 year old buck and I've had a hard time getting him back up to good condition as he arrived with mineral deficiency (dry skin, faded rough coat). He's looking much better since I have been dosing him. Also since the COWP dissolves slowly you don't have to worry about overdosing them. And also a big bonus is they have better immunity to worms if they have the copper. 

[Myra Isaac]

It's possible that something went wrong with the test or that they were unclear in communicating. Nothing could have meant nothing to worry about. Frosty's black coat had always been more of a bay black than a clear true black. It's also possible that our water has plenty of iron or sulfur in it that would bind to the copper and cause copper deficiency. Our water is quite hard and we've never had it tested. Should I copper bolus my doe whose coat is fading and looking harsh? Both of my does eye lids look less pink than they should altho they don't look terrible either. I'm just terrified that I'll loose one of the others since I'm at a loss as to what went wrong.

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

I still would not entirely rule out parasites. A fecal can confirm but cannot rule out parasites because there are too many reasons you can get a negative -- and if they really saw zero, then something went wrong. Maybe they did see a few but did not communicate that correctly? Maybe they did not actually run the fecal as soon as you dropped off the sample and let is sit in the open rather than putting it in the refrigerator; maybe the goat just did not pass any eggs in that poop?

Last year I had taken a young goat to be with me on a TV show, and while we were there, she pooped in the studio 4-5 times, and it was always perfect little berries. We got home and took her out of the car, and while we were standing there talking, she pooped, and it was full of tapeworms! Thank goodness she had not done that earlier!

Also, if a goat is copper deficient, they will have a hard time dealing with even a small load of parasites. Years ago I had two bucks die and took them in for a necropsy. After the gross necropsy, the pathologist told me that it was not parasites -- and they can tell if a goat has a gut full of parasites when they cut them open. However, by the end, after they had checked out everything, they came back and said it was parasites. Unfortunately they had not checked the liver for mineral levels because that is not routine. Knowing what I know now, they probably either died from copper deficiency or a low load of parasites that killed them because they were too low on copper for their immune system to be able to handle it.

[Myra Isaac]

I took poop that he'd passed shortly before he died. It was in our shop where we had a fire going but it wasn't that warm in there since it's not insulated and just a tin shop. It was about 35' outside and the door was open too.