First Freshening.......Past due

My three year old Nigerian doe should have kidded around May 6th. Ligaments are mostly gone (I think....not a pro), bags are there, full but not tight and shiney. She stands on the fence when I come over, constantly eats and seems overall happy. Vet said not to induce (via telephone only), babies healthier inside doe. See obvious movement on left side of doe ( thats me standing behind her). So it would indicate that they are still alive.  When do I know if I have a problem ?

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  • These are show goats and prefer not to have mom nurse them. Until I feel they are strong enough, I have been taking them out to mom three times a day and I am feeding at night. Mom is still pretty weak and can only get about 2 oz per session. She hears them calling, meets us at the gate, feeds them, cleans them and after about half an hour we bring them back into the house. I have been staying home but went from every two hours to every three hours. They tend to be adapting and I am getting a bit of sleep. Force fed small doe colostreum all afternoon. After the first couple of feedings she is bouncing around with the rest of them. Even nursed off mom tonite for quite a while. Does are about 2 lbs and buck is about 4-5 lbs. Hopefully will be able to milk enough out of mom tomorrow to feed straight to kids. They seem to like it a lot better than the cow's milk.
  • If you want mom to raise them, they need to stay with her. If they are bouncing around, they are certainly capable of nursing, but she might reject them if they're gone too long. Kids nurse more than a dozen times a day, but they only get a little each time, which is why they have to nurse often.
  • yikes !. Really don't know how much they are getting from mom. But I know I was only able to milk out about 2 oz this morning. I have a friend who has bottles of colostrum so I might just swing by and get some.

     

    Mom had the shakes really bad. Buck was enormous. Probably about the size of a 3 week old. Other three were really tiny. Vet thought she was still having contractions and we have quite the storm here so it is pretty windy and chilly. Seemed fine today. Two stronger kids nursed off her for a bit. Will be taking them out again in about an hour. Two are bouncing around my living room, while the smallest doe just stands there,wags her tail and watches the other kids being silly.

  • The kids need at least 8 to 10 ounces of colostrum in the first 24 hours. You have to either hold the bottle in their mouth until they drink that much, or you have to tube feed them.

    If you give more details, we might be able to offer better suggestions. What type of "issues" did mom have?

  • Came home to babies today. She had quads but one little buck had already passed. Worked on a doe for about an hour and she is bouncing around my living room right now. One very large buck (twice the size of other kids), two does.  Mom had some issues after passing placenta, so vet came out and gave her some Calcium and B vitamins. She is pissed. Was able to have kids get colestrum for a bit, but mom was pretty out of it so we brought three kids into house. Bottle feeding whole cow's milk. Tried to milk mom tonite, but just not producing. Hopefully in morning she will have full bags so I can milk her and get the babies on her milk. Meanwhile....any advice ??? They seem hungry but do not eat more than a couple sucks from the bottle.

  • Most people recommend loose minerals for goats. They have very soft tongues, and if they need a lot of minerals, they can't get it from a block. If you're not feeding a commercial feed -- only corn, oats, barley? -- there could definitely be nutritional issues. Goats have really complex nutritional requirements. Read the thread on copper and see if anything sounds familiar.

    Christine Morrell said:

    No necropsy. Vet had been working with our does for the last couple of months and watched this little buck not grow for five months. Ate like crazy, but was absolutely teeny.

    Herd has been wormed on May 1st. All currently with shots. Do have mineral blocks and only feed Grass Hay to bucks, whethers and non lactating does. Pregnant doe gets grass hay and sweet cob.Seems like she s always eating.

    I really wanted to get rid of the buck, but he was so small and helpless I could not find a home that I "approved" of. Just as well. Do not want an ill goat coming out of our herd.

    Vet should be in probably tomorrow. Will do blood work and fecals. Told him to bring the copper. Meanwhile doe is enormous. But still very active and bouncy around everywhere. Think she's giving birth to either 3-4 kids or a cow. Just hope whatever it is .....it is healthy and a normal delivery

  • No necropsy. Vet had been working with our does for the last couple of months and watched this little buck not grow for five months. Ate like crazy, but was absolutely teeny.

    Herd has been wormed on May 1st. All currently with shots. Do have mineral blocks and only feed Grass Hay to bucks, whethers and non lactating does. Pregnant doe gets grass hay and sweet cob.Seems like she s always eating.

    I really wanted to get rid of the buck, but he was so small and helpless I could not find a home that I "approved" of. Just as well. Do not want an ill goat coming out of our herd.

    Vet should be in probably tomorrow. Will do blood work and fecals. Told him to bring the copper. Meanwhile doe is enormous. But still very active and bouncy around everywhere. Think she's giving birth to either 3-4 kids or a cow. Just hope whatever it is .....it is healthy and a normal delivery

  • Well, if you had an ultrasound, you know she's really pregnant -- not even a false pregnancy, so that's good. Your dates are probably just wrong.

    If you have another goat die, you should have the livers checked for selenium and copper. Very few vets know anything about nutrition and have total faith in the feed companies, which is kind of ridiculous because there is no industry standard for nutrients. Copper can vary from 0 to 80 ppm in goat feeds -- seriously. Research shows it should be 30-40 ppm, and I never even had a vet ask me what I was feeding before insisting that we had no nutritional problems. I hope you didn't pay for a necrospy just to be told "failure to thrive" with no reason. Copper deficiency can cause that, as well as parasites.

  • Did an ultra sound about a month and a half ago. Vet confirmed pregnant. Had to breed her a couple of times because she kept coming back into heat. Did feel a hoof last week. It was kinda cool. But so afraid she will not have live births, broke my heart as there is nothing I can do.

     

    Vet coming out in a couple days to check the rest of my herd as we have lost a couple bucks in the last three weeks and I have two goats very thin. Buck died couple of days ago due to "failure to thrive" per our vet. He was about 13 months and weighed about 20 lbs. Never had any problems with our herd until we brought new buck onto property. Vet going to run some fecals and blood work to see what problems might be. Meanwhile, I truly hope my dates are wrong, but it was cold here around Christmas and I am almost positive everyone was in their seperate pens . Cold here is 40 degrees.

  • I have never heard of any vet inducing labor in a goat, and I know plenty of people who've tried to talk them into it. IF she is pregnant, you must have the date wrong. At the end, kids can kick on either side, but the rumen is on the left, so unless you saw something sharp like a hoof, maybe it was the rumen? It is entirely possible that she has a precocious udder and is not pregnant, if you are absolutely sure that she would have kidded by the 6th of May. When I was new to goats, I knew a woman who spent several nights in her barn in the middle of an Illinois winter, thinking her goats were overdue, and when her vet finally came out there, he gave her the news that neither of the two were pregnant.

    Problems tend to be very obvious -- like a goat that is laying down refusing to eat or one that is hysterically screaming. There are a couple of birth videos on here that you can watch to see how a normal birth goes. First fresheners tend to be especially freaked out and loud, because they have no idea what's happening. Here is a blog post I did a couple years ago with photos: http://antiquityoaks.blogspot.com/2008/06/best-laid-plans-of-homest... I love the photos because it so clearly shows you what a goat looks like when she is really in labor. And that's normal!

    Let us know how things go!

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