I've had my NDs since January of this year. Cayenne was bred late January and kidded in June. Except for one that died last winter all of my goats have been very healthy except for Cayenne who seems to be almost chronically copper deficient. She also has battled parasites while my younger doe, her daughter seems to not be bothered by either parasites or copper deficiency. Cayenne is currently in milk but her production has rarely been over a pound. Granted occasionally due to my health I've had to let her baby do all the milking for me which drops production. I've copper bolused Cayenne twice during pregnancy at least once since Star was born and she looks like she needs it again. Also it appears that I'm going to have to do some extensive treatment to try to get her worm load down. Her breeder told me that I shouldn't dry Cayenne off until several months before she kidded next so she didn't develop a short milking cycle. However, I feel like she maybe needs a break to try to deal with the parasites and get back on her feet properly before she has the strain of another kidding and the subsequent milking. Cayennes dam really started going to town on her third kidding (3 kids and higher milk production ) and this would be Cayennes third so I'm kind of thinking she might do the same. I'd really appreciate some input!
Note she had been pretty thin for a while shortly after I got her and I attempted to treat for worms then. I was really careful what I gave her while she was pregnant and then after she kidded I treated naturally again. She put on some weight after that but her eyelids are still much lighter than I like to see. Star is definitely old enough to go to his new home and I don't want to push Cayenne if she needs a break to get back on her feet. On the other hand if I need to keep milking her so she doesn't develop a short milking cycle I want to do that. My gut says give her a break but I wanted some input from some of you experienced goat herders!
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I found the concentrated Morantel tartrate at Hoeggers goat supply. It comes in a l lb package and is easy to add to their grain. Mine would never eat the pellets but this works fine.
Morantel tartrate is the dewormer that is solid, so it's sold as a feed additive or as a feed. It's basically pellets. If you can get the feed additive, that's probably better because you can add it to their regular feed, so they'll be more likely to eat it. Sometimes if you get the one that's a feed, it's not that concentrated, so it's the only thing you feed for that "meal," and some goats won't eat it. If you have a Tractor Supply in your area, they usually sell both.
This one is 1 pound of dewormer per 100 pounds of goat, which is kind of a lot to expect a goat to eat:
There is no reason to dry up a doe before breeding. The first couple months of pregnancy are not physically challenging for them at all -- assuming they are in good condition. And a goat should not be bred if they are not in good condition. Pregnancy is not the time to try and put weight on an underweight goat. Sounds like the worms are dragging her down, and if that's the case, drying her up won't help. Lactation really does not take much out of a goat. I have too many goats that get overweight when milking. In fact, every single goat that I have milked for a year or two has wound up overweight.
What exactly have you given her in terms of a copper supplement? What dosage?
Myra Isaac said:
Ok I'll look into those drugs. Would you recommend giving her a break before breeding her again?
In my experience, Molly's did not work well for a goat that had a fairly heavy worm load. She even says on her website that they are for preventing worm overloads, rather than for treating.
When it comes to drug residues in milk, keep in mind that the way the drug is administered will affect how long it is in the goat's milk. For example, if ivermectin is given orally, the drug withdrawal is a week, but if it is given by sub-q injection, the withdrawal is 40 days. There are a couple of drugs that have no drug withdrawal, such as morantel tartrate, so you might consider using one of them and then waiting a couple of weeks just to be on the safe side if you're extra sensitive.
A heavy worm load will keep a goat from producing up to her potential, so if this doe has a low tolerance for worms, you may never see a decent production from her, if you are not willing to treat her with a chemical dewormer. It seems that a lot of the highest producing goats don't have much tolerance for worms because they are throwing all of their energy into making milk. And then there are some goats that just don't have much tolerance for worms, period. The goats that I now have in my herd work well with my management, which involves almost no use of chemical dewormers. However, I had to cull some goats because they simply could not function without the use of dewormers, and because many of those goats were related, I think there is a strong genetic component.
No chemicals so far. I'm super sensitive so her milk will be contaminated for the rest of her lactation. I've used an herb mixture from Molly's herbals but I couldn't use the main one because she was pregnant. I may try the main one again now and see if it would help. I've also used a homeopathic wormer and she put on weight after that one but her eyelids are still too pale and she has this major copper deficiency that keeps coming up.
If I have to use a chemical dewormer I'll dry her off and give her a couple months rest before breeding her next.
Replies
I found the concentrated Morantel tartrate at Hoeggers goat supply. It comes in a l lb package and is easy to add to their grain. Mine would never eat the pellets but this works fine.
Morantel tartrate is the dewormer that is solid, so it's sold as a feed additive or as a feed. It's basically pellets. If you can get the feed additive, that's probably better because you can add it to their regular feed, so they'll be more likely to eat it. Sometimes if you get the one that's a feed, it's not that concentrated, so it's the only thing you feed for that "meal," and some goats won't eat it. If you have a Tractor Supply in your area, they usually sell both.
This one is 1 pound of dewormer per 100 pounds of goat, which is kind of a lot to expect a goat to eat:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/manna-proreg%3B-positive-pell...
This one is 8 ounces per 100 pounds, so you can mix it with their regular feed:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/dumorreg%3B-goat-dewormer-3-l...
There is one that is in a small red bag that is even more concentrated, but I can't find it at the moment.
There is no reason to dry up a doe before breeding. The first couple months of pregnancy are not physically challenging for them at all -- assuming they are in good condition. And a goat should not be bred if they are not in good condition. Pregnancy is not the time to try and put weight on an underweight goat. Sounds like the worms are dragging her down, and if that's the case, drying her up won't help. Lactation really does not take much out of a goat. I have too many goats that get overweight when milking. In fact, every single goat that I have milked for a year or two has wound up overweight.
What exactly have you given her in terms of a copper supplement? What dosage?
Myra Isaac said:
In my experience, Molly's did not work well for a goat that had a fairly heavy worm load. She even says on her website that they are for preventing worm overloads, rather than for treating.
When it comes to drug residues in milk, keep in mind that the way the drug is administered will affect how long it is in the goat's milk. For example, if ivermectin is given orally, the drug withdrawal is a week, but if it is given by sub-q injection, the withdrawal is 40 days. There are a couple of drugs that have no drug withdrawal, such as morantel tartrate, so you might consider using one of them and then waiting a couple of weeks just to be on the safe side if you're extra sensitive.
A heavy worm load will keep a goat from producing up to her potential, so if this doe has a low tolerance for worms, you may never see a decent production from her, if you are not willing to treat her with a chemical dewormer. It seems that a lot of the highest producing goats don't have much tolerance for worms because they are throwing all of their energy into making milk. And then there are some goats that just don't have much tolerance for worms, period. The goats that I now have in my herd work well with my management, which involves almost no use of chemical dewormers. However, I had to cull some goats because they simply could not function without the use of dewormers, and because many of those goats were related, I think there is a strong genetic component.
If I have to use a chemical dewormer I'll dry her off and give her a couple months rest before breeding her next.
What have you used to treat her for worms?