Posted by Jess on June 26, 2012 at 12:49pm in Health
I'm getting ready to copper my goats this afternoon. If the rain ever stops. But I would rather not bolus. Do I have to or is it just as effective to mix it in with there grain.
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Rachel, I don't know about that! You may be on to something there. I am so glad you brought up that possibility. I have not heard of it or thought about it, but have to wonder if there might be some truth in that.
I thought I would share this link that shows actual x-rays done showing the copper in the goat and maybe that will help you visualize what you are discussing. I think that may make it easier to see why this form is used! This is a very knowledgeable myotonic breeder that I know and you can count on her info being accurate! http://www.goatspots.com/copper.html
You don't have to bolus them if you can make sure they each get their amount either in a treat (prunes, marshmallow, etc) or their food.
Personally, I have done it both ways. I think it's easier just to bolus them because I have never been able to find a treat that all of my goats will reliably take it in. Inevitably I end up bolusing someone anyway, so I prefer to just do them all that way and not fool with any other method. I do it at the same time that I'm worming, trimming hooves, etc. I like to get things done all at one time when possible!
To answer Ruth Goode's question, it is my understanding that the rods (not actually solid copper, just copper oxide shaped that way) will settle in one of the goat's stomachs, whereas powder would pass through at the same speed as food. I've also heard that as an argument for bolusing rather than giving it to them in a treat, with the idea being that the chewing will pulverize the copper rods and they won't work as well. But I know so many people sneak them to them in treats and have good results that I don't necessarily subscribe to that logic. ;) If anything I would imagine the only negative result would be needing the dose them slightly more often...but that is just my opinion. I'm not an expert on it!
Ruth Goode said:
I ordered Copper B0lus from Santa Cruz Biotechnology, Inc. They come in goat size doses in a small clear capsule. Looking through the clear capsule is kinda creepy--seems weird to feed them "wire particles" on purpose! I thought about buying the monostat applicator and decided to try something else first..... I took some really big juicy grapes, I hollowed each grape enough enough to plug the hole with a capsule -First I fed each goat a couple of grapes with no capsule, next I gave a 3erd grape with a capsule "plug" quickly followed by a 4th grape with no capsule, As soon as grape # 3 was in their mouth the sight of the 4th grape made them swallow grape # 3 real fast! It worked like a charm on all 4 of my goats.
I gave Flower 4 gms ( she has a 2 week old kid) I gave my 2 big Nubian weathers the same (maybe they should have 2 as I think they are between 150 and 200 lbs ??--but they do not look as deficient as my Nigerian Does.
I gave Bling only 2 gms as I was feeling unsure about giving her anything as she will kid in about 2 weeks--I intend to give her 2 more gms right after she kids.
Do you give the copper to kids if their mom seems deficient? If so at what age?
Why is this copper supplement given in a form that still looks like wire? Sire seems like it should be ground up more?
It depends on your goats, I guess, and how you feed them. If they will eat it off their grain can you be sure that each goat gets the right dose? Since my girls share a bowl that wouldn't work for us. One of mine eats it in a molasses and bread sandwich, the other I can sometimes coax to eat it, but usually I have to bolus her. She would never eat it in her grain.
I ordered Copper B0lus from Santa Cruz Biotechnology, Inc. They come in goat size doses in a small clear capsule. Looking through the clear capsule is kinda creepy--seems weird to feed them "wire particles" on purpose! I thought about buying the monostat applicator and decided to try something else first..... I took some really big juicy grapes, I hollowed each grape enough enough to plug the hole with a capsule -First I fed each goat a couple of grapes with no capsule, next I gave a 3erd grape with a capsule "plug" quickly followed by a 4th grape with no capsule, As soon as grape # 3 was in their mouth the sight of the 4th grape made them swallow grape # 3 real fast! It worked like a charm on all 4 of my goats.
I gave Flower 4 gms ( she has a 2 week old kid) I gave my 2 big Nubian weathers the same (maybe they should have 2 as I think they are between 150 and 200 lbs ??--but they do not look as deficient as my Nigerian Does.
I gave Bling only 2 gms as I was feeling unsure about giving her anything as she will kid in about 2 weeks--I intend to give her 2 more gms right after she kids.
Do you give the copper to kids if their mom seems deficient? If so at what age?
Why is this copper supplement given in a form that still looks like wire? Sire seems like it should be ground up more?
It depends on what type of symptoms they have. When I gave mine copper the first time, their coats were noticeably softer within a couple of weeks, and I even found it so hard to believe that I asked my husband what he thought -- without telling him why I was asking, and he also thought that the ones with copper had softer coats. After getting the copper, they blew their old coat, and all of the old prickly hair shedded out. You won't see a difference in color, however, unless you separate the hair and look at the roots. If they had faded coats, you'll see darker roots within a couple of weeks also. But it takes time for the coat to grow out, so you won't see the difference from across the pasture for 2-3 months -- unless you clip them and remove all of the old hair.
Replies
Glenna, I found this at Jeffers Supply: http://www.jefferspet.com/product.asp?pn=0040894&green=753C3E00...
Glenna Rose said:
Where do you get your copper?
Rachel, I don't know about that! You may be on to something there. I am so glad you brought up that possibility. I have not heard of it or thought about it, but have to wonder if there might be some truth in that.
I thought I would share this link that shows actual x-rays done showing the copper in the goat and maybe that will help you visualize what you are discussing. I think that may make it easier to see why this form is used! This is a very knowledgeable myotonic breeder that I know and you can count on her info being accurate! http://www.goatspots.com/copper.html
You don't have to bolus them if you can make sure they each get their amount either in a treat (prunes, marshmallow, etc) or their food.
Personally, I have done it both ways. I think it's easier just to bolus them because I have never been able to find a treat that all of my goats will reliably take it in. Inevitably I end up bolusing someone anyway, so I prefer to just do them all that way and not fool with any other method. I do it at the same time that I'm worming, trimming hooves, etc. I like to get things done all at one time when possible!
To answer Ruth Goode's question, it is my understanding that the rods (not actually solid copper, just copper oxide shaped that way) will settle in one of the goat's stomachs, whereas powder would pass through at the same speed as food. I've also heard that as an argument for bolusing rather than giving it to them in a treat, with the idea being that the chewing will pulverize the copper rods and they won't work as well. But I know so many people sneak them to them in treats and have good results that I don't necessarily subscribe to that logic. ;) If anything I would imagine the only negative result would be needing the dose them slightly more often...but that is just my opinion. I'm not an expert on it!
Ruth Goode said:
It depends on your goats, I guess, and how you feed them. If they will eat it off their grain can you be sure that each goat gets the right dose? Since my girls share a bowl that wouldn't work for us. One of mine eats it in a molasses and bread sandwich, the other I can sometimes coax to eat it, but usually I have to bolus her. She would never eat it in her grain.
I ordered Copper B0lus from Santa Cruz Biotechnology, Inc. They come in goat size doses in a small clear capsule. Looking through the clear capsule is kinda creepy--seems weird to feed them "wire particles" on purpose! I thought about buying the monostat applicator and decided to try something else first..... I took some really big juicy grapes, I hollowed each grape enough enough to plug the hole with a capsule -First I fed each goat a couple of grapes with no capsule, next I gave a 3erd grape with a capsule "plug" quickly followed by a 4th grape with no capsule, As soon as grape # 3 was in their mouth the sight of the 4th grape made them swallow grape # 3 real fast! It worked like a charm on all 4 of my goats.
I gave Flower 4 gms ( she has a 2 week old kid) I gave my 2 big Nubian weathers the same (maybe they should have 2 as I think they are between 150 and 200 lbs ??--but they do not look as deficient as my Nigerian Does.
I gave Bling only 2 gms as I was feeling unsure about giving her anything as she will kid in about 2 weeks--I intend to give her 2 more gms right after she kids.
Do you give the copper to kids if their mom seems deficient? If so at what age?
Why is this copper supplement given in a form that still looks like wire? Sire seems like it should be ground up more?
Sorry, I didn't answer you Tammy, I have been in Ft. Benning, Ga. @ our sons graduation from Army Ranger Training. YAAAAH!!!
I see you got great answers though and I am sure you will be surprised at how soon you will begin to notice the changes. It truly is very cool.
I honestly don't even think it was a week before they started dropping their coats and getting all slick and shiny!
It depends on what type of symptoms they have. When I gave mine copper the first time, their coats were noticeably softer within a couple of weeks, and I even found it so hard to believe that I asked my husband what he thought -- without telling him why I was asking, and he also thought that the ones with copper had softer coats. After getting the copper, they blew their old coat, and all of the old prickly hair shedded out. You won't see a difference in color, however, unless you separate the hair and look at the roots. If they had faded coats, you'll see darker roots within a couple of weeks also. But it takes time for the coat to grow out, so you won't see the difference from across the pasture for 2-3 months -- unless you clip them and remove all of the old hair.
Hi Margaret,
So I "coppered" my herd last weekend....I was just wondering how long it took before you noticed some changes. Thanks!
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