This will depend on the results of my fecals...I was planning to run them today but the test tubes did not come so now I will do them tomorrow. But if my Ivermectin cocktail still didn't work I am going to have to go to cydectin. I know the margin of safety is smaller, does anyone know the dose for the cattle injectable for a goat, orally?
I read that using the sheep drench causes you to have to give them a lot of liquid...which doesn't thrill me. I am also not wild about giving the cattle pour on orally which is what I know a lot of people do. So cattle injectable orally would be my 1st choice, but don't know the dose.
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Sorry! Don't know why I was assuming ivermectin injectable, but good to know you're using it orally. When injected, Cydectin has an even longer milk withdrawal. In fact, most charts simply say not to use it in dairy animals. I really wish they would not do that because a lot of people think that just means that it hasn't been studied, and it has. Cydectin stays in the milk for something around 4 months when injected!
Deborah, yes I use the injectable orally. Actually the injectable that I meant I ordered was the cydectin injectable. I read that a lot of people use the cydectin pour on orally, but they all say it smells like diesel fuel and I am just not wild about force feeding something like that to my girls. I thought the injectable cydectin orally would hopefully solve my problem of wondering about the horse paste without having to either a) give huge amount of cydectin sheep drench or b) give diesel fuel pour on lol
I don't think the one doe is in any danger, her count was 20, her color has improved --her original count was 125 and she was nearly white, and she is now down to 20 with major improvement in eye membrane color, I think she is not like a 3 (borderline) so phew. The other one is a baby who was pretty loaded before cydectin...still loaded now...and I am not wanting to let her sit and wait a week to try the other cydectin. I am planning to go ahead and give her the levasole tonight. I just weighed her holding her on the bathroom scale for her cydectin dose last week so at least I have an accurate weight on her. Although ironically this baby was still in the acceptable color range even though had a very high FEC. she has a sleek coat and is not underweight. So probably not near death. But still, I see that many eggs and it freaks me out!
I think you probably know this, but in case there are lurkers out there ... you should always use ivermectin as an oral drench rather than injecting it in milkers because the milk withdrawal is 40 days, which is really ridiculous. When using the same drug orally, the withdrawal is only 6 to 9 days, depending upon the dose. The cattle injectable is a nice drug to use as a drench (orally), however, because it is so concentrated, so you don't have to get much into the goat. Also, injecting dewormers into goats is not a pleasant experience. It is so bad that many people thought their goat was having a seizure after injection.
As for the doe that has not responded to the cydectin horse paste, I'd say it depends on her condition. If you are worried about her surviving until the ivermectin arrives, you can try the levasole.
Well...I have some more info.
I used Cydectin on several goats. Got well over a 90% kill on 3 of them. 2 of them showed little or no response to it at all. One of those two did leave my farm for 12 hours (she was sold) and returned to me the next day but there was a lot of stress in it for her (me too if you had heard the crazy story!!!) so I don't know how her stress level may have affected her #.
Now I am not sure if what they say is true and the medicine is not well distributed in horse pastes, it would explain why some responded so well and some poorly. I am ordering the cattle injectable.
I have not tried to levasole yet but I think I am going to break it out...
On one doe a cocktail of morantel and ivermectin got a more than 90% kill. Another doe got only morantel in that experiment and she got like a 75% kill so I redid her with morantel and ivermectin. Her # went UP. So...I guess those worms she has left in her are totally resistant to both of those drugs.
So I have the doe who left overnight, who still has a 2o count on her slide after cydectin (horse paste). Should I let her wait until I get the injectable in the mail or try the levasole on her?
Other doe who got Ivermectin/Morantel, her count went up, she was around 20 as well.
The youngster who got Cydectin has a count of 50 from today. I can't find her previous number, apparently lost where I wrote it down. I think this is almost the same load she had, though. Certainly not a successful deworming.
I ran fecals on everyone who was borderline...color not as dark as some of my animals and/or outright anemia, rough coat ect.
I ran the fecal on this kid because I had dewormed her with Valbazen and the other same aged kid I dewormed with Valbazen had gotten significantly worse (FEC skyrocketed). Then I just got curious and started counting coccidia because I just learned how to see them lol...so that's how all that came to be.
I have learned to bolus my adults every few months (we have sulfur water) and I looked back at a pic of a two month old black kid before her bolus, she was already totally rusted out. After bolus she is jet black and shiny. So it happens fast for me
I don't actually do fecals unless a goat is showing some type of symptom of worm overload, such as pale eyelids, clumpy poop, diarrhea, poor body condition, sudden drop in milk production, etc. However, it is quite possible that "goat A" will have more worms than "goat B" even though B is having symptoms and A is not. Some goats are simply more resilient than others. The other thing is that if a goat is deficient in copper, they will have a much harder time dealing with internal parasites than a goat that is not deficient.
Well, you muliply by 50 to get eggs per gram and 5000 is what they say is clinically significant, now I am not sure I got a full 3 g of poop for this sample, so I would say her egg per gram is likely 2000-2700. So unless she gets diarrhea I guess I am not going to worry about it. She has no symptoms of anything except looking maybe a little copper deficient. I am planning to bolus the babies this weekend because two with lots of black are looking slightly rusty.
This wouldn't alarm me personally if the kid was acting perfectly normal. I only say this because I had the experience of doing fecals and seeing that a doeling of mine last year had a lot of cocci on the slide, but was acting fine. I don't remember exactly how much. I don't think I even counted, but they were in every view pretty much. I still have her, she kidded this spring, and is making a lot of milk for me. Buckling is fat and happy. I never treated her and she never showed any symptoms. Her brother, on the other hand, was showing symptoms. I did have to treat him. SO, I think it depends on the goat. But this is all just my opinion and my experience.
Okay, if any of this info is in the book just say in the book!! I bought it but I haven't had time to read it yet.
Would 54 coccidia on a slide alarm you? If I am doing my math right it is below clinically significant. Kid is 9 weeks old and has no symptoms.
So, the one doe who got only morantel, her count was reduced from 35 to 8. So, not an over 90% kill. Technically she is in the safe range now. Do I need to hit her with cydectin to get rid of the "resistant" worms that are left in her because she is now shedding them on the pasture?
Same question different goat. I had one who got the Ivermectin and her count went from 123 to 10. So technically over 90% but it was close.
Speaking of anemia....my weanling baby whose # went way up, and she was WAY over the recommended eggs per gram to deworm, her color had not gotten any more pale at all. My other weanlings are pretty good pink, not quite as red as I would like but they seem okay so I want to try and get fecals before I do anything but according to that other doeling's color she was okay too, and she was NOT okay. So what gives?
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