Comment please, alfalfa and males

This was posted elsewhere. As I recall, it is counter to what I have usually read, but perhaps I am misunderstanding some things.

"actually alfalfa is great for boys - they need the calcium. The best ratio of calcium to phosphorous is 2:1 (more calcium then phosphorous) to keep the chance of stones developing to minimum."

Comments please.

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  • That's really pretty funny about the beards and water since the bucks pee on their beards and directly into their mouths! Mine drink the water fine and all day long. I don't think they mind a little of their pee in the water at all!

  • Thanks Bev, I love that kind of wisdom from people who have been doing this for a long time. Such a logical thing to do, but it never occurred to me! 

    Winding River Farm (Bev) said:

    I hear so many varied views on alfalfa and the bucks.  Back years ago when I had Nubians I feed alfalfa to all my goats.   Usually some grass hay top dressed with alfalfa.  Never had a problem.

    I do the same now - my bucks and one wether with an older buck - get grass hay or orchard grass and some alfalfa am and pm.  I have been lucky - never had a problem with the boys.    But I have very acid spring water and I always give them two buckets of water,   a fresh and one with ACV in it. 

    I went to a talk a lady gave about goat care - she had 50 years experience.   Said she fed her bucks alfalfa   as that was all that was available for her.   She said she never had a problem and always salted their feed a little to make them drink more water.  Just a shake of table salt.   Maybe the amount of water they drink is a key thing??   I also am taking beards off the boys for the rut season.   Urine from the beard into water bucket would make less drinking - I didn't  really think of this until the linear appraiser said he never let a buck have a beard for that reason.  My Nubian buck didn't have a beard but these little guys can get pretty long.   

  • I hear so many varied views on alfalfa and the bucks.  Back years ago when I had Nubians I feed alfalfa to all my goats.   Usually some grass hay top dressed with alfalfa.  Never had a problem.

    I do the same now - my bucks and one wether with an older buck - get grass hay or orchard grass and some alfalfa am and pm.  I have been lucky - never had a problem with the boys.    But I have very acid spring water and I always give them two buckets of water,   a fresh and one with ACV in it. 

    I went to a talk a lady gave about goat care - she had 50 years experience.   Said she fed her bucks alfalfa   as that was all that was available for her.   She said she never had a problem and always salted their feed a little to make them drink more water.  Just a shake of table salt.   Maybe the amount of water they drink is a key thing??   I also am taking beards off the boys for the rut season.   Urine from the beard into water bucket would make less drinking - I didn't  really think of this until the linear appraiser said he never let a buck have a beard for that reason.  My Nubian buck didn't have a beard but these little guys can get pretty long.   

  • My opinion which has worked for all my bucks...I do not ever feed alfalfa.  I did in the beginning and I noticed that they became very aggressive.  So for 8 years I do not feed alfalfa.  I feed, oat hay, sudan, tricale, higare, bermuda, beardless wheat. Bucks don't need the extra calcium.  My does do not get alfalfa except the ones that are pregnant and lactating nursing their kids.  I free range the does and do not feed grain at all.  Mine has been healthy with no issues of any kind.

  • I had an issue with zinc deficiency in a doe last year and gave her BOSS and pumpkin seeds (without the hull) morning and night for five days (didn't record how much I gave her though, probably a few tablespoons of each).

    She was losing hair and had a lot of dandruff, so I also rubbed sunflower oil into her coat.

    I started to see improvement so stopped giving her so much extra and began adding BOSS to the daily ration.  I had stopped adding it a month before her coat got crappy.

    But adding more zinc to the diet might not do a ton of good if it's an absorption issue due to excess calcium.

    Maybe feed the zinc rich supplements a few hours before feeding grain/alfalfa?

  • Any tips for improving zinc levels? I think I might be having an issue with this...

  • You hear about so many different management styles because everyone's situation is different, and I'm sure that your situation is even more different, being on a different continent in a different hemisphere and everything. Knock on wood, I've never had a case of urinary calculi. However, I always try to get grass hay to get my bucks through the winter here because both years that I had only alfalfa, my bucks wound up zinc deficient due to consuming too much calcium in the alfalfa. It was pretty scary to see them foaming at the mouth, but the random blowing of the coat when it's around zero degrees outside was the really scary thing. At least no one died, so that's a good thing.

  • OK, back to alfalfa questions....

    We have read a thread on The Goat Spot site about feeding alfalfa to bucks and it seems that there are breeders who feed alfalfa without issues (urinary calculi). 
    I raise this again because we have a new batch of kids (5), this time being dam raised. 

    I mentioned last year (above) that we have available very good clover-rye hay and the goats have done very well on it. I don't recall the exact amount, but it seems that the hay merchant said that the protein content is around 12.5% The hay merchant also has several other varieties of hay that we switch around to keep the goats happy. We have available alfalfa bales, pure clover bales, alfalfa-clover bales (the goats love, love, love this stuff! and they rarely get it), and bales of a variety of clover here called shaftal which is also known as Persian clover (goats love this stuff too!). Generally, the goats always have available as much clover-rye in their feeder as they want and the pure clover or shaftal are added as treats (but never the alfalfa).
    We also had a tragedy of a young doe which died last year at about 3 months age due to what appeared to be a bleeding ulcer. The veterinarian said that he has seen this happen a number of times to young sheep and young goats, particularly if they have been on supplement (pellets) as had our dead doe. We resolved not to give pellets to our goats in the future, especially to our kids, if we did not need to do so.

    Our six adult goats (a wether, a buck, four does) have been the picture of health now for the past year, on a diet of hay/hays only (with minerals, seaweed, baking soda free choice). "Don't fix it if it isn't broken."

    We now have four first fresheners, two recently kidded (both the first week of August) and two due in four weeks. For the two who are now feeding their kids, we provide all the hay they can eat (and waste) in the form of clover-rye, alfalfa-clover, and alfalfa hay in their feeder. They seem to be doing fine, to the extent that our senior doe Chloe (the doe who never met a food she didn't like) is almost looking as big as before she kidded and her two kids are butterballs. The smaller, younger new mother, Lotte, has triplets and since she is so small (17 1/2 inches at withers) we have started to add pellets (1/4 cup of a mix of pellets & BOSS, morning & night) to her diet to make sure she doesn't waste away though we had determined not to use pellets again. (I suppose we have decided to feed the goat, not the idea.) She is fine and her kids are fine, but nothing like the Chloe's butterballs over the fence in the next stall where their dam gets all nutrition from hay!

    The issue is that we have lots of alfalfa lying around, and the other goats, particularly the buck and the wether, also want it whenever they can get it. We have been giving them a bit of the clover hay and "some" alfalfa along with all the clover-rye they want. We had started Chloe and Lotte on alfalfa (few handfuls per day) a week out from kidding and moved up slightly as they got closer to kidding. We will do the same with the two pregnant does.
    To repeat, they all get free choice minerals, seaweed and baking soda (though none of them even touch the baking soda much at all).

    The boys get are now getting a bit of clean-up duty on the remnant stems etc. of the alfalfa and occasionally sneak a bit more.

    This is less of a question than a report of progress, but I will update on how this works and how the limited alfalfa goes with the boys.

    Any thought on the alfalfa and the boys would be appreciated.

  • My bucks get more aggressive if fed alfalfa...so I never give it to them..and no grain.

  • Michael - I also give my bucks grain.   Very little,  maybe 1/4 cup once a day.    It stops mine from rubbing on me - I tell them to run to their dish and they do - so works for me.   They get a handful of alfalfa every morning too - just a little.  Grass hay always available.    I do put a pinch of ammonia Clor.  on the grain every few days and we have very high acid water -so far no problems.   They stay in good condition.   I used to add AC vinegar to the water but haven't of late.  Just make sure the water is always clean - fresh when I do chores so they drink a lot.   

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