Okay, folks, I need clarification. A friend asked me today what to put in her birthing kit. One of the things I told her was iodine and/or betadine for dipping the cord, that betadine was recommended by others but after what happened with my firstborn doeling last year, the vet told me iodine. He said that iodine is not water soluble and the doe can lick off the betadine so iodine is better. Since doeling's (my first-born VanEden goat) infection in her liver that killed her was the result of bacteria through the cord, I am going with the vet's advice from here on out.
She told me her natural goat friends told her to use cayenne for the cord. I understand that cayenne is a blood stopper but have never read anything about it being an antiseptic for dipping navels. I don't want to pass on inaccurate information. What is the "scoop" on that? Does anyone use cayenne rather than iodine or betadine at this very critical time?
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I always say that you should do whatever helps you to sleep at night.
But I also don't think we should assume we know how most diseases in goats work at this time. Serious research on goats only really started about 10 years ago, and there still is not very much. Even with all the research we do in human medicine, there are still so many things we don't know. We've probably had about 400 undipped cords here and no cases of navel ill, but there are other farms that have seen it quite a bit, which makes me think it's not just a matter of dipping cords at birth. The problem with assuming that that is the whole story is that we could be overlooking something more important.
I am not going to say it matters one way or the other; however, there is more to it than just dipping or "navel ill." It has been so long now and there was so much going on at the time and with my stress that I honestly do not remember whether I dipped the cord or not that night. When Capri delivered three years ago and it was such a struggle for the first baby to be born and the other three had to be delivered at the vet's office several hours later, her first-born died ten days later. The necropsy revealed a severe liver infection which was attributed to bacteria traveling through the umbilical cord. Until I found her dead, there was no indication of anything wrong; she had been playing and cavorting with her brother the evening before.
I did not dip navels last kidding season (for me two years ago), but both births were very easy deliveries and totally unassisted except for helping to dry. From my own very limited experience, I would conclude that navels absolutely must be dipped if there is handling of babies during birth but perhaps not if all goes as it should (in a clean environment). Certainly, my experience is far from anything except pure gut feeling. Regarding use of iodine, etc., my vet said to use iodine because it is more difficult for the doe to lick it off with it being not water soluble. Frankly, I'm not sure what the answer is but I will dip if there are any issues at all because of the anti-bacteria nature if only briefly. Whether my little doeling died because of introduction of bacteria during such horrible birthing or shortly after, my first-born to carry my herd name is laying peacefully under the apple tree . . . and my heart is always broken for her. Maybe it's best I don't know if a simple iodine dip would have saved her life.
I've never heard of a doe rejecting a kid because of the smell of iodine on the umbilical cord. In fact, when I saw an online argument 10+ years ago about whether or not to dip cords, one of the arguments against it was the mom frequently licked off the iodine, so some people felt like they were wasting their time. I don't necessarily think they were wasting their time because it should kill germs on contact, but it is true that some does lick the cord a lot.
We did dip cords for the first 2-3 years we had goats, but after seeing that online argument and reading the study I mentioned earlier in this thread, I decided to stop doing it. I don't really like the thought that "it can't hurt" because there is such a ripple effect in so many things, we usually have no idea how everything is inter-related. So I generally don't do anything unless there is a verifiable reason to do it.
The only case of navel ill we have ever had here was in a lamb whose mother had mastitis, and he had almost starved to death by the time we found him. His brother was dead already. Based on what the vet said, I think there is a lot more to navel ill than simply germs on the umbilical cord. The vet said his near starvation definitely played a roll. I think the name navel ill might be a misnomer like milk fever, which is ironically characterized by a doe that has a lower-than-normal body temp.
So it sounds like you've never had a problem with the mother not liking the smell? That's good to know.
Winding River Farm (Bev) said:
Navel ill is a very bad thing to have. Had it once with a lamb and my barns are as clean as you can have them. Dipping with iodine is so easy to do and can keep this from happening so I wonder why some people don't want to. I also let the cord break normally and have never cut it. I actually dip twice - first and second day. It also dries the cord up quicker I think.
Interesting! There are no nerve endings in the human umbilical cord, and I've always assumed that was the case with other animals too.
Julieanne Cook said:
I'm resurrecting this thread because I recently got some information from a co-op extension saying that the use of iodine for cord dipping can cause a problem for swine. They think it is actually quite painful for the piglets and that the smell of it can cause a mother to reject her young.
Has anyone had similar experiences with their goats?
I wish I were so organized! It was at least ten years ago that I read it, so it had to be even older than that. We used to have those handy little plastic cord clamps and everything our first two years.
Deborah, I did a little search trying to find a study such as the one you read years ago (on lamb cord treatment practices/evidence for best care) and can not find anything. I'd love to read it. Sometimes the older studies are the best! Any idea where you found it?
Sandra Hess
Heartland Midwifery
http://www.heartland-midwifery.com/
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