Big Kids & Grain!!

Good morning,

I was reading through several forum posts in the "Birth Announcements" section here last night, just to further prepare myself and pass the time while I wait for my first mama-to-be to kid. I saw a big discussion on the topic of feeding grain to pregnant does, and now I'm a bit panicked. 

I followed the exact feeding instructions of the breeder of my girls, who has been operating a beautiful small farm type commercial dairy using Nigerians exclusively. She is very experienced and her kids are sought after in this part of the world, so I didn't even think to stray from her feeding program.

Here is her exact instructions for Maple, who was purchased in February, as she entered her last 2 months of pregnancy: "She is getting about 1 cup of grain each morning....poulin sweet goat..and free choice loose minerals, baking soda and hay and water of course. That is plenty of grain until she is about 2 weeks from her due date/week. At that time I would increase it to 1 1/2 cups but still once a day until she kids and then 2x a day and about 1 lb of grain total."

I know there are different schools of thought, but now that I've read the great grain debate here, I'm worried that my first kidding experience will end in disaster! Sorry to sound dramatic... lack of sleep and lots of anticipation trying to learn to read ligaments and watching Goat TV around the clock. :-)

Is there anything I can do at this late stage and/or during labor to have a better chance of a successful delivery, or should I alert my vet today that we could be coming in for a c-section? Maple is a 2nd freshener, kidded with twins last year with no issue at all. I really trust and love this breeder, but I'm so worried now. I've also been giving kelp to all my goats + some alfalfa hay to Maple over the last week (with her grass hay) + a few BOSS treats here and there because her coat is really dry. I added in a tiny bit of Red Cell to her grain the last few times as well because she looks a bit pale and I just had a fecal done with negative results.

Is there anything I can do? Day 145 is today or Saturday, depending on which breeding took. Maple has been showing signs of moving closer to labor for a couple of days now, but nothing active.

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  • I think the exercise is the most important thing for pregnate girls.  Ours gets lots - they are let out of their penned area every day (if there is no rain) and they roam quite freely by our house.   Afternoons we take them supervised walks on the property.  I give my girls about a cup of grain a day as they think they will die if they don't get to come into the stanchion and eat it.  This has been our best year ever for kidding.  Eight so far and all easy - textbook kidding.  Two more to go so hope it stays this good.  My girls are actually running a lot.  They like to keep an eye on my husband when he is working out in the yard as he throws limbs and treats over the fence for them and here they come - full run big girls.  Now the new babies are doing it all the time too.  Makes the babies strong and healthy also.  I feel sorry for the goats that don't get all that interaction.  We are also fortunate to have quite a bit of browse for them.  I think that is very important also - notice that the pregnate girls really go after the blackberry bushes. 

    Being that we are retired we are always here with them. 

    Sorry about the dog attack.  When I lived in Colorado years ago I had a neighbor dog kill most of my animals.  My neighbors   here know that a roaming dog that comes on our property  is a target.  They think I am the crazy goat person but they keep their dogs home.  We have a large cougar population so that is my biggest concern now.   

  • Oh, Barbara! I'm so sorry for your loss. Domestic dogs had a similarly tragic effect on our friends' herd two years ago. That's so difficult to go through. 

    My Maple looks like she has big saddle bags on her, and by the feeling of the movement outside the belly, I definitely think she has at least 2 in there like last year. 

    Alaska is such an amazingly beautiful place! A good friend of mine from grad school is near you. We're in New England and have had similar struggles with weather. So many ups and downs that I ended up giving my whole herd a small amount of grain during the colder snaps. I've seen runny noses and eyes for the first time this year.

    Exercise-wise, we have always loved to hike with our goats.  We started taking Maple out as soon as she got used to us. She's game to follow right along, and everybody loves to browse the evergreens and such. 

    It is good to know that I'm not alone in figuring the feeding regimen out, and that I might not be dealing with a catastrophe after all. I hope the best for you as well, and please keep me posted on how your kidding goes!! :-)



    Barbara Jean Rondine said:

    Old Haunt Farm,

    I am in a similar situation; this will be my doe second kidding and the first was a singleton and so large that I had to pull her myself; the vet had delivered twins to my other doe (since killed by a roaming huskie to my great sorrow) a month before.

    I have been giving a handful of grain to her twice a day.  She is so big bellied that I think there will be several kids.  I'm really excited to have kids again, and hope for all to go well.

    Great to find someone in a similar place to me.  I live in Fairbanks, Alaska so have added problems with weather.  So I'll go home now and get my girl to walking

    Best wishes,

    Barb Rondine @ Gaia Farm

  • That is SO encouraging Julieanne! I would love to know more about what you're specifically doing and how goats fit in! I'm always excited to learn something from other permaculture farmers! How great to meet you here!

    And thank you for the compliment on the farm name! I came up with it partly because our little farm is right next door to a small historical cemetery, so I couldn't resist the tongue-in-cheek reference. The other part of the inspiration is just my intention for the place... to have it become somewhere to frequent and remember fondly.  We chose Nigerians in part because we want to be a farm for families to visit and have interactive experience with kid-friendly animals. Nigerians are amazing for so many reasons!! :-)


    Julieanne Cook said:

    I've been trying to implement permaculture practices on my property too. I'm finding goats work beautifully with the program!

    Been meaning to tell you, I love the name of your farm. :-)


    Old Haunt Farm said:

    Thank you, Deborah. That's a huge relief. I totally hear that it's a process to determine the best management practices for one's unique set of circumstances. I'm excited to grow in that understanding. I feel a little too much like I'm shooting in the dark right now, but I'm watching my girls and studying my soil and forage. My water is an issue with high iron and magnesium content, so I would love to get a filter installed at the source. I have a neighbor who's teaching me about permaculture, so I'm psyched to begin some practices there to improve my land and the inner workings of my farm. 

    Anyway, I'm still watching my girl and no labor yet, but how exciting to think of future generations and what selective breeding and educated management will do!

  • Old Haunt Farm,

    I am in a similar situation; this will be my doe second kidding and the first was a singleton and so large that I had to pull her myself; the vet had delivered twins to my other doe (since killed by a roaming huskie to my great sorrow) a month before.

    I have been giving a handful of grain to her twice a day.  She is so big bellied that I think there will be several kids.  I'm really excited to have kids again, and hope for all to go well.

    Great to find someone in a similar place to me.  I live in Fairbanks, Alaska so have added problems with weather.  So I'll go home now and get my girl to walking

    Best wishes,

    Barb Rondine @ Gaia Farm

  • I've been trying to implement permaculture practices on my property too. I'm finding goats work beautifully with the program!

    Been meaning to tell you, I love the name of your farm. :-)


    Old Haunt Farm said:

    Thank you, Deborah. That's a huge relief. I totally hear that it's a process to determine the best management practices for one's unique set of circumstances. I'm excited to grow in that understanding. I feel a little too much like I'm shooting in the dark right now, but I'm watching my girls and studying my soil and forage. My water is an issue with high iron and magnesium content, so I would love to get a filter installed at the source. I have a neighbor who's teaching me about permaculture, so I'm psyched to begin some practices there to improve my land and the inner workings of my farm. 

    Anyway, I'm still watching my girl and no labor yet, but how exciting to think of future generations and what selective breeding and educated management will do!

  • Thank you, Deborah. That's a huge relief. I totally hear that it's a process to determine the best management practices for one's unique set of circumstances. I'm excited to grow in that understanding. I feel a little too much like I'm shooting in the dark right now, but I'm watching my girls and studying my soil and forage. My water is an issue with high iron and magnesium content, so I would love to get a filter installed at the source. I have a neighbor who's teaching me about permaculture, so I'm psyched to begin some practices there to improve my land and the inner workings of my farm. 

    Anyway, I'm still watching my girl and no labor yet, but how exciting to think of future generations and what selective breeding and educated management will do!

  • I wouldn't worry about it. A big part of whether the kids(s) get too big is how many are in there. The fewer the kids, the bigger they tend to be. Being a second freshener, she probably isn't pregnant with a single, which is what seems to cause the biggest problem with overly large kids. 

    Your doe's breeder has found what works on her farm with her genetics, and that's a great place to start when buying a goat from her. But your farm is different. The hay you get will probably be different. Your water is different. All of those things will mean that you will ultimately have a different management plan than she does. And as your herd grows, your management will change. At this point, I've discovered that my does don't need any grain at all during pregnancy, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend that for everyone. In fact, I always say that you shouldn't do something I do just because I do it. Listen to your goats. I've been working with these same genetics for more than a decade, and someone once said that you'll really start to see goats perfectly adapted to your farm by the second or third generation that's born there, and I'm seeing that. I'm really loving my third and fourth generation goats.

  • Thank you so much, Julieanne. I love that you've been a doula! I have several doula friends, and I had midwife/doulas at both my births. Moving around does help so much. I'll remember that! Luckily we have a nice big kidding stall so she can pace as much as she wants.

    I'm glad this is at least her 2nd time around, and that she was fed exactly the same way last time when she was still with her breeder. I hope I can learn from this experience without the hard part of the lesson, though I happened to see our vet today and let him know I might be calling him. 

  • The only thing I can suggest is what we did with laboring human Moms when  I was a doula. Keep her active! Moving around helps things get into place better than lying down.

    I wouldn't worry though, unless and and until you have something to worry about. If you do have overly large kids, you will know to cut back the grain next time. But chances are it will be ok. 

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